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i am the wife of a man in the same state you are. the pain never goes away. i hate to say it but i gave into pressure to see a male gyno before my husband and i married... it was my parents demand and i was under 18. we were not sexually active but they only wanted to hurt us and that is what they did (which proves it is a terrible thing) to this day he and i still have many problems do to this and it only happened to me once. i can only imagine how you feel. first let me say that i have read the bible cover to cover and it is error free and unlike our FEELINGS OR INSTINCTS it will never be influenced by the world around us. we are so easily swayed into believing that a man who is DR. automatically can't have a sexual guy's mind though every other single man on the face of the planet is 90% sexually minded! what utter and complete crap. i feel for your loss and it is a loss indeed. if you are able to make changes act now! God will always provide a way for us to do what is right but we are not guaranteed it will be easy. have hope. you are NOT ALONE, but it is so sad. the pain never goes away, but we should never be comfortable to deal with sin... it is a sin on both the doctor's parts and the wife (this coming from a wife in the equal state she is in) it is always hard to admitt your own guilt but sir, i am indeed guilty. i am remorseful though and have changed my ways. there was only the one single time for me and i have been ever so careful since to keep myself for my husband but it doesn't erase the one time. with the help of God you and your wife can find peace and God is JUST so you can count on him to repay the men for their lustful perverse choice of going into that feild to begin with! i hope your wife is more interested in pleasing you and doing what is MORAL and RIGHT in the eye's of God rather than what is ACCEPTABLE in the eyes of the world. i will pray for you sir.

It is not for me to criticize anyone's religion or their level of belief but as God states we are all of a free will, so being "forced" to see a man gynecologist against your will sounds like a cop out.

Yes the Bible is error-free for those who believe BUT it is also a matter of interpretation. If you know anything about the Bible, I'm sure you will agree.

I do however strongly disagree with your generalization about men. Who are you to say that 90% are sexual minded? I agree that alot of men are but really, it's not right to generalize and you don't know that for a fact.
It is your choice to feel guilt from this incident but you have to agree that the vast majority of the population does not agree with this principal where it applies to medicine simply because there is no sexual intention on their part.
I think we all just need to be a little more tolerant of eachothers feelings and beliefs b/c each will answer for their own life's choices at the end, jmo.

first: you read anyother book and take it at face value but the bible Must be interpreted... NO NO NO. the bible is to be taken literally at all times unless context indicates otherwise (i'm refrencing the golden rule of interpretation)
Second: clindholm, one only uses "interpretation" as a CRUTCH when they do not want to feel guilt themselves. it is more right for me to feel guilty about what i did and what happened than for you to be so open minded about the way God created men. He did indeed creat men to be sexually minded and that is in no way a bad thing. you'll never prove that a man looking at a vagina either in a white room with rubber gloves on or in a bedroom result in different thoughts and feelings. a man gay or not will always enjoy looking at a woman. Also, feelings CANNOT always be trusted (a person may feel guilty for eating a cookie but is eating the cookie wrong? no. just respecting one's feelings is NOT enough. the world has molded us to feel certain ways to match their own guidlines but we must always trust the bible first and ourselves second.
Third: if you know the bible like you claim you are correct to know IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO CRITISIZE AT ALL! you need to first remove the "speck" from your own eye (and correct your way of fitting to the worlds mold and wisen up) before you try to help "remove the log from your brother's eye" if you have read your bible you know to which passage i referr. you have no business advising soemone else when you are still such a babe in faith if you have any at all (i have seen no proof of the fruits of christ in you yet...) i urge you to pick up the Blessed Holy Scripture and search for Godly answers then come back and see how you can help someone.

and to you sir, mrpanicatm, i did pray for you and your family and will continue to do so. always seek the LORD and what He wants then and only then will you have answers, peace, and JUSTICE

Wow, you are just a little too fanatical. I hope you don't have children b/c they will more than likely grow to hate religion and that would be a shame.
I have read the Bible but I have not memorized it and I have not claimed to either. It is a FACT that the bible needs to be interpreted. If you take everything literally you don't learn the true lesson that Christ is trying to teach.
Maybe you should try to stop criticizing instead of accusing others.
I really feel that you need to get off of your self imposed pedestal.

Clindholm, if you don't agree with what the Bible says, fine- this country gives you the right to believe what you want.
But don't pretend that the Bible is unclear or difficult to interpret. That is just a flimsy excuse. The Bible plainly and clearly condemns any sexual activity outside of marriage. And nakedness is sexual. That's why we wear clothes. We wear clothes because we know (whether we admit it or not) that it is wrong for someone to see us naked who is not our spouse. Nakedness outside of marriage will always be shameful.
It is wrong for a woman to show her nakedness to a man besides her husband, and it is wrong for a man to show his nakedness to a woman besides his wife. This applies under all circumstances.
And (I am sorry to be graphic), it is not only seeing the woman naked which happens in a gyno exam. The man also touches her and penetrates her. This is all very sick, especially if the woman is another man's wife.
Under no circumstances should a woman show herself to a man who is not her husband, or allow someone to touch her.
If this happened outside of a doctor's office, we all know what we would say. The Bible doesn't teach situational ethics, but absolute moral laws which apply under all circumstances.
As far as man's nature, what you said denies the facts. Pornography exists and is popular because men get off on seeing. I flatly deny that any man can see a woman's vagina and not get something out of it. In fact, men eagerly try to get women to SHOW them something, because seeing nakedness is sexual.
Yes, the majority of Americans think that it is ok for a male doctor to examine a woman naked. But that doesn't matter. The majority have always been wrong (Noah's flood, anyone?). The majority of people don't believe in Christ, and accept other perversities like homosexuality and abortion.
It is right for hurt1found comfortinGod to feel guilty about what she did. I wish more of us would break down before HOLY GOD and have sorrow for our sins.
Finally, Clindholm, it is very wrong for you to say ugly things to her like "I hope you don't have children." What better mother could children have, then one who fears God and teaches her children to obey him?

She didn't say she disagreed or that it's difficult or unclear. But it IS up to interpretation. This is why people study it. It's not like the napoleonic code, where everything is spelled out.
And being fanatical about your faith doesn't help others to know His love.
Well said clindholm.

I never said I disagreed with the Bible, quite the contrary.
I honestly feel that the Bible can be difficult to interpret. I am able to get more meaning out of the scripture when our Pastor gives a sermon than just reading it myself. It helps me to get the full meaning. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that and I really don't think that makes me stupid. If you will recall, Jesus was put on earth to explain all this to us.
Also, according to the Bible, nakedness regardless of gender is sinful. Who were the sons who saw their fathers nakedness? I remember the story but cannot recall as well as you the details. I am sure there were no sexual intent on the children upon seeing their father naked.
How would you even then explain going to a female doctor? How would any of us receive any medical treatment that would require us to remove our clothes? I personally have a female gynecologist but that is my CHOICE.

Jesus is all about forgiveness of sins. If hurt1 chooses to continue to feel guilty, that is certainly her problem but claiming to be "forced" into it is a cop out as we are free will beings as is quoted in the Bible.

I still disagree with the generalization about all men. How would anyone presume to know all mens thoughts aside from the Lord? I know there is a huge market for pronography, I never said there wasn't.

I also disagree with your generalization of Americans. What nationality are you? I'm sure I could come up with some generalizations about your country that would upset you.

I have had several friends that have had parents that have forced their fanatical beliefs on their children and totally turned them away from Christ. There is a loving and caring way to teach the lessons of Jesus and there are forceful and oppressive ways. The latter turns more people away from religion and Christ at a time where more people should be turning to him for hope and guidance. I have seen the damage that a person like hurt1 can cause and it is not fair to the children. These attitudes can drastically change a persons life's path. Jesus is LOVE not fanatical oppression. Maybe you all need to re-read the New Testament.

gummibear- Thank you for the Voice of Reason!!! I was thinking I was the only sane one in here.

Two things.

First, there is a lot more to God than His love. I am not trying to help you understand His love, but HIS JUSTICE. God hates sin. And so do all His children. God hates sin so much that He once destroyed this world with a Flood, killing countless numbers of people and only saving eight who were faithful to Him.
If anyone disobeys God in this matter of sexual purity, you can be sure that God will judge that person.

Second, interpretation is not difficult. Let's take an example. What if you read in the newspaper the headline "Fourteen women were murdered today." We would all immediately understand what was meant, because we take the words in their ordinary and plain meaning. We know that the word "murder" means to kill someone unjustly. So we react to this headline with sadness- how sad for fourteen women to be killed today! But wait, what if we redefine the word "murder"? What if I think that the word "murder" means "to give someone a million dollars"? Then my interpretation of the line changes. I think, how wonderful for those fourteen women! But of course this interpretation is false, because "murder" does not mean "to give a million dollars."

So, if you take the Bible's words in their ordinary and plain sense (to mean exactly what they say), then you will have the correct interpretation. And you can give the same verse to 10 people, and if they read it like they read anything else, they will all get the same meaning.

So read the Bible. You will discover that it teaches that to see the nakedness of the opposite gender outside of marriage is sin. But your conscience teaches you that already.

1. God judges ALL of us, not just the sexually impure. Sex if not for procreation is sin. Have you ever had sex without the intention of creating a baby?

2. Your lesson in interpretation is really quite ridiculous and meaningless. Why would we have churches and pastors if would could just stay home and read the bible?

3. To see the nakedness of anyone is sinful regardless of gender. Read my last post.

1. The Bible nowhere says this.

2. I am a pastor. But that doesn't mean that you can't understand the Bible for yourself.

3. The Bible nowhere says this. I have repeatedly emphasized "to see the nakedness OF THE OPPOSITE GENDER outside of marriage is sin." It is permissible to see the nakedness of someone of the same gender, except, as you correctly pointed out, in the case of children seeing parents. The Scripture you are thinking of is Genesis 9, where Ham saw the nakedness of his father Noah.

When we die, we all are judged, that is how it is determined if we are to go to Heaven or Hell. Being a "Pastor" as you claim, I would think you would know that.

If you are a Pastor, what exactly is your function if not to help people understand Christ's teachings? Anyone can read a Bible but to teach and help people understand is what my Pastor does. What exactly do you do? Just read to people? You may want to look for another job.

Well if to see your same gender parent naked is a sin, THEN IT IS NOT A SIN EXCLUSIVE TO THE OPPOSITE SEX.

I suppose we can debate about this for days but in the end we need to just agree to disagree. I have read the bible. You have read the bible. We have both taken different things from it.We all have our own beliefs and honestly it is not my concern what anyone else chooses to believe. I only have to worry about myself and my own.

I haven't commented on this thread in forever but have followed it as my attempts to get this site to stop sending me e-mail notices have been futile.

First, I have to say that I highly doubt that godstillspeaks is a pastor. And if you are one you do not posess the compassion, nor the Holy Ghost within you to speak the Word of God and therefore do not deserve that title. You are narrowminded, unsympathetic and a disgrace to all who call themselves pastors.

Second, nudity in and of itself is not a sin. We are born naked and in many cultures nudity is the way of life. (thinking Africa, not Western nudist colonies) God allowed man to be ashamed of his nudity. He does not say it is a sin. Also, to say the bible isn't up for interpretation is LUDICROUS! That book was written in an era where words did not carry the same definition they do now. So what once could be interpreted literally must now be interpreted because the lingo has changed. For example: Brother now-a-day means male sibling. Back then it could have been any myriad of things including close friends, family, and/or fellow Christians.

If you truly are a pastor perhaps you need to go back to get a higher degree in Theology because truthfully, you are highly mislead.

Bravo krissy, all very valid points! If you go into "My Profile" down at the very bottom there is an option for email notifications, change to "no".

Oh I forgot to comment. Hurt1, don't quote the bible unless you quote it correctly. You said, "you need to first remove the "speck" from your own eye (and correct your way of fitting to the worlds mold and wisen up) before you try to help "remove the log from your brother's eye" if you have read your bible you know to which passage i referr."

If YOU READ YOUR bible, you would know the passage says, "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Clinholm, to say that krissy has valid points is to demonstrate a lack of understanding of logical argumentation.
Krissy completely avoided what I said, and instead attacked me. This is called the ad hominem fallacy. Furthermore, she called me a liar when she claimed to doubt whether I am a pastor.
She also utilized a straw man argument. I did not say that the Bible did not need to be interpreted, but that interpreting it is easy. The burden of proof is on her to show that the words of the Bible do not have their ordinary meanings.
Krissy also utilized ad hominem against hurt1. Instead of dealing with what hurt1 said, i.e. the issue of hypocritical judging, she attacked a silly typographical error. Hurt1 was obviously writing under a lot of emotion and so made the mistake because she had been beaten down by you guys. But even though she switched the words, her point was still valid.

The only reason that you guys are patting each other on the back is to make yourselves feel better about rejecting the teaching of the Bible. You say that the Bible can have many interpretations, but you have yet to propose an alternate interpretation. You have not quoted any Scripture to support your position.

Your best argument is to ridicule someone, which shows that your own position is weak.