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Clinholm, to say that krissy has valid points is to demonstrate a lack of understanding of logical argumentation.
Krissy completely avoided what I said, and instead attacked me. This is called the ad hominem fallacy. Furthermore, she called me a liar when she claimed to doubt whether I am a pastor.
She also utilized a straw man argument. I did not say that the Bible did not need to be interpreted, but that interpreting it is easy. The burden of proof is on her to show that the words of the Bible do not have their ordinary meanings.
Krissy also utilized ad hominem against hurt1. Instead of dealing with what hurt1 said, i.e. the issue of hypocritical judging, she attacked a silly typographical error. Hurt1 was obviously writing under a lot of emotion and so made the mistake because she had been beaten down by you guys. But even though she switched the words, her point was still valid.

The only reason that you guys are patting each other on the back is to make yourselves feel better about rejecting the teaching of the Bible. You say that the Bible can have many interpretations, but you have yet to propose an alternate interpretation. You have not quoted any Scripture to support your position.

Your best argument is to ridicule someone, which shows that your own position is weak.

Shutup already. I'm getting sick of these emails. "is to make yourselves feel better about rejecting the teaching of the Bible"... As a happy Agnostic, I can't stand people like you.

I hate to point it out but I never 'patted anyone on the back'. Maybe you need to reassess your own ability to judge and accuse falsely.

I didn't call you a liar either. I said I doubted you, which is in every aspect my right. Also, I stated that if you are a pastor, you are a poor one.

The idea that interpretation of the bible is easy is a matter of opinion, of which not everyone shares and it is proven that words from long ago do not have the same definition as they do today. Any person, with a high school education knows that, so don't be asinine.

As for rejecting the teachings of the bible, who are you and who ordained you all knowing about the teachings of the bible? I have my bachelors in theology and am apprentice to a doctor of theology who indeed IS a phenomenal pastor. No, i may not know much, or even anything in comparison but, I do know when someone is full of it and you sir/ma'am ( i dont even know ) are full of it. You type a lot and actually say very little. I pity your congregation, that is, if you have one.

Keep on speaking, everyone, yes, let the hate out. Don't attempt to have a respectful dialogue. Call names; make false accusations. Prove by your own words that you are the close-minded ones, the intolerant ones.

You want toleration for everything except Bible-believing Christianity.

And Krissy, I am obviously a sir, since I believe the Bible, which prohibits a woman from being a pastor or holding positions of authority over men

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh, excuse me.

godstill speaks, you said, something along the lines of until recently only midwives and husbands were allowed in with their wife during childbirth. Just FYI - only midwives were allowed in. Not even the husbands were allowed in.

As far as women holding positions of authority in the church and/or being pastors, they most certainly can. They just cannot hold the highest position in the church.

What version of the bible do you read anyway?

I completely forgot to finish my initial thought, as I was distracted by real life. In any case godstillspeaks, it is known that the first female gynecologist didnt come around in the USA until the late 1800's and only in the early 1900's did it become somewhat accepted for a woman to be any kind of doctor at all. The midwives, spoken of above, were not doctors and did not practice gynecology but only knew the care of and birthing of a pregnant woman. How do you propose if the only gynecologists in that time were men, that a woman was to take care of herself medically speaking?

Godstill speaks- your exact qoute-
"So, if you take the Bible's words in their ordinary and plain sense (to mean exactly what they say), then you will have the correct interpretation"
Yet now you claim that interpretation is needed? Which is it?

Why is so terrible for me to agree with someone that makes logical sense? I rather think that you are not used to having your beliefs challenged by women. You have repeatedly avoided specific comments throughout this pointless conversation and argued on issues that you chose to.
Who exactly is rejecting the teachings of the bible? I don't see anyone saying anything of the sort. Please quote if you will.
I also don't see any name calling and it appears that you are the only one spouting hate.
I honestly do feel sorry for your congregation.

LISTEN YOU IGNORANT AND POMPUS FOOLS. STOP PUTTING UP WALLS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO FEEL LIKE YOU ARE GOOD PEOPLE.. YOU ARE NOT (NO ONE IS. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHO I AM SO KEEP MY NAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTHS. I AM A DEAR CHILD OF GOD AND BY HIS gggggggrrrrraaaaaaacccccceeeeeeee I AM SAVED AND MADE PURE FOR A FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM. I READ THE CLOSEST FORM OF THE BIBLE TO THE ORIGINAL HEBREW AND GREEK SO DON'T COMDEMN THE HOLY SCRIPTURE. STOP ATTACKING EVERYONE ELSE AND SHUT UP FOR A DAY OR 2 ASSESS YOURSELF AND THEN COMEBACK AFTER "PRAYER AND MEDITATION" AND THEN SEE WHAT THE SPIRIT WHICH I HAVE IN ME (AND ANYONE WHO TRUELY BELIEVES THAT THE DEATH JESUS CHRIST PAID FOR THEIR SINS ON THE CROSS IS ENOUGHT TO GET THEM TO HEAVEN AND THEY CAN DO NOTHING THEMSELVES TO ATTAIN THIS, HAS) GOD STILL SPEAKS HAS ALOT TO TEACH YOU ALL, YOU REBELLIOUS GROUP OF BABES IN THE FAITH(IF YOU HAVE THE FAITH). AS FOR ANYONE WHO'S A WOMAN.... SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUTTTTTTT UUUUUPPPPPP AS 1ST CORINTHIANS WRITTEN BY PAUL CLEARLY SAYS YOU SHOULD DO WHEN LISTENING TO AN APPOINTED MAN OF GOD. YOU KNOW NOWTHING (AS YOUR REDICULOUS AND FLIMSY ARGUMENTS HAVE PROOVEN ) AND BEGIN TO LEARN SOMETHING. IF YOU WILL NOT GET OFF HERE BECAUSE THIS ALL BEGAN AS SOMEONE (MYSELF) TYPING IN SOME DIVINE WORDS OF THE BIBLE TO HELP A MAN IN NEED. STOP MAKING IT ABOUT YOURSELVES AND GET OFF YOUR OWN PEDISTAL. I AM NEITHER PERFECT NOR ON A PEDISTAL AND YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING. STOP LETTING YOURSELVES BE CHILDREN OF SATAN AND SEEK TO BE "CHILDREN OF LIGHT"

LMAO..Ok, I'm done here. Having a conversation, a debate, even an argument is one thing. But when fanatical lunatics decide to start yelling non-sensical ridiculous-ness via the internet, that is where I draw the line. hurt1, you have yourself a good evening and calm down. Don't want that vein in your face to explode.

This is a truly pointless waste of time and energy with narrow minded misguided fanatics. Go pick up your signs and hit the street corners, I'm done.

after reading how ridiculously out of hand this thread has gotten all i can say is god do i love my male gynecologist. he is a doll. i adore him. the minute i met him i knew i wanted him to deliver my children. he is the kindest, gentlest dr i have ever seen and if god is wasting time fretting over who examines my whoha for cervical cancer every six months then he/she needs to reprioritize. children are dying all over the world. leave my nuni to the experts.