7 eggs eh, then you have a marvellous ov...

Liza - October 1st, 2005 9:59 AM
[Original Comment]

7 eggs eh, then you have a marvellous ovulation rate for a woman and must eat very well. Without your chart, my guess would be that either you pulled that figure out of thin air, you have a history of hyperovulation or you were given misinformation/didn't quite understand what was being said, simple as that. 7 eggs rupturing and the hormonal surges involved would be a bit on the pinching side. Your doctor, if you were being monitered, would be observing your maturing follicles, not 'how many eggs you produce', it's standard to observe follicle numbers and size as part of RE treatment. You also seem confused, it's FRATERNALS that are genetic. 75% of all twins are fraternal, plenty of women multi-ovulate, and once a woman has one set she's at increased risk of another. (My gran had 2 sets, a neighbor had 3 within 10 years, all boys and all born before the advent of fertility drugs, they're daddies now) IDENTICAL twins are NOT GENETIC, they're flukes of nature. Or rather, the most advanced theory is that there may be a genetic mutation in the parents that interupts the symmetrical division process, hence not only identical twins but also conjoined twins (which only occur in identical twinning). You clearly know almost nothing of what you speak and I doubt you have the ability to grasp anything but the simplest cliff notes version of the subject. There is an increased chance of fraternal twins with Clomid because of the stimulation of the ovaries and possibility of both ovaries releasing an egg or two (or one ovary releasing 2/3/4) in that state. There is very little correlation with higher order multiples and Clomid is consider one of the least risky drugs as far as higher order multiples are concerned. You should be far more concerned about your LSH trigger dose on that front. There is no correlation with identical twins. I've repeated this 3 times now and it still doesn't seem to be sinking in. Of 100 women taking Clomid, between 5-10 of them will end up with fraternal twins, less than 1 will end up with triplets or identical twins and if they do it's more them/chance than the meds. I really can't make it any simpler then that so if you don't get it you'll have to live in the darkness of your own ignorance or go back to University, get a Biology degree, apply to Med school and start into an Obstetrics specialty. You'll hit twinning in Biology 101, you'll get to the inner workings of twins if you do a side course in genetics. Then maybe you can challenge me. As it is, you look more foolish each time you speak.
I studied in America from 1986-1995 (USC, UNV). Your RE sounds like he can't get any concrete info into you either but opinions differ and maybe he just figured you weren't the type of patient that needed to understand your condition, only it's ramifications. We call them NTKs - need to knows, patients you give a sketchy outline to so they'll fall in line and obey you. And that's why I don't mind helping out women here. I believe every patient has a basic right to be an informed and decision making partner in their health care, understand the business workings of pharmacy and the sales involved and dislike the 'I know best' attitude of my older, less bright or more cowed colleagues. I've seen doctors refuse to treat a woman because she was obese, I've sat around an operating table while a surgeon made a joke about the anest. patient and I know that they don't always know best, do make very human judgement calls and can be patronizing to their patients and flat out wrong. All this malpractice and yet some people think their doctor is super-human and can't make mistakes. Silly. If a woman is up against that sort of professional attitude and willing to educate and moniter herself, so be it. Better she hear some facts from someone who knows then codswaddle from an agendist like you. I also kept my mouth shut about a colleague having an unassisted home birth back when that was 'illegal' in the state at the time too. Many of the laws on the books are there, like prohibition, as a temporary societal control measure. I don't approve of that practice and refuse to abide by it on philosophical grounds. Rebellion I think they call it.
There are only 3 things to watch out for - weak liver, weak kidneys and ovarian hyper-stimulation. All of that can be checked by an informed patient and I trust women so involved to be that informed patient. A cyst will be painful but not life-threatening. If they have no humble, cooperative doctor willing to work with them then they have to work alone. American society is far too dependant on miracle workers in white coats and needs to reclaim some of it's independence and sense of self responsibility in my view. When women think they need an epidural to give birth they've gotten the wrong end of the stick. With accurate and full information I believe in a woman's ability to take responsibility for her health, especially her reproductive health. To me, a doctor is simply an assistant, not a demigod.

Michelle, your RE is right to downplay the risk of fraternals, it is still quite rare to release more than one egg and most women will not need to worry about that. You don't need to worry about hyperstimulation for those pains, they're sadly very common on Clomid because of the stimulation. Hyperstimulation is quite rare and you'd find the bloating would be very clear-cut - you wouldn't be zipping your jeans and would have quite sharp pains. It's kind of like determining if you're really in labour or not - if you're wondering if you are, you're not. OHS is like labour - you have no doubt when it hits, something feels seriously wrong and you'd want help. With a recent U/s and confirmed O I wouldn't be worrying about OHS. When you go in for your prog. on Monday you can discuss the pains with him in more detail but he'll probably reassure you as I have - they sound very much like ovulation pains on Clomid and are a common side-effect of the drug. Irritating but there you are. Sorry you missed your chance at trigger this month but maybe you didn't need it and will get that + test result in a couple of weeks. It never hurts to have hope :o) Best of luck with it.


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